Most of our clothes contain stretch. That stretch usually comes from a fibre called elastane, which is one of the biggest barriers to recycling clothing at scale. In this episode of the Circular Economy Show, Seb Egerton-Read sits down with Georgia Parker of Fashion for Good and Lewis Shuler of Paradise Textiles (Alpine Group) to discuss why the industry reached for elastane by default rather than by intent.
Most of our clothes contain stretch. That stretch usually comes from a fibre called elastane, which is one of the biggest barriers to recycling clothing at scale.
In this episode of the Circular Economy Show, Seb Egerton-Read sits down with Georgia Parker of Fashion for Good and Lewis Shuler of Paradise Textiles (Alpine Group) to discuss why the industry reached for elastane by default rather than by intent.
They discuss how their project, 'Stretching Circularity' brings together brands, innovators, supply chain partners, and ecosystem experts to generate data on performance, recyclability, commercial feasibility, and mapping the barriers to scale.
The goal is to speed up the development and adoption of lower-impact elastane solutions. Although no single fibre will replace elastane, and no single company can solve it alone. Today's bio-based and recycled alternatives are fragmented and early stage, which is why coordinated and compounded industry action is needed to match the scale of the problem.
Links:
Stretching Circularity - https://www.fashionforgood.com/case-study/stretching-circularity-project/
The new bottom line - https://www.ellenmacarthurfoundation.org/policy-levers-for-resale-and-repair/report
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[00:00:00.000] - Lewis Shuler
What we've done for decades is that we've just used a polyurethane-based elastane by default rather than by intent. There are really a lot of opportunities to look at how we redesign textiles with purpose.
[00:00:14.900] - Seb Egerton-Read
Did you know that one of the biggest barriers to designing garments for a circular economy is elastane, the material that helps certain clothing to be stretchy? The good news is there's actually a lot of innovation in different design solutions out there. The challenge is validation and scale. The Stretching Circularity project set up by Fashion for Good with an ecosystem of innovation and brand partners is designed to tackle exactly that topic and issue. On today's episode, I'm joined by Georgia from Fashion for Good and Lewis from one of those partners, Alpine Group, to find out a bit more about what they're doing and what they hope to achieve. This is the Circular Economy Show, and I'm your host, Seb.
[00:00:54.740] - Seb Egerton-Read
Georgia and Lewis, thanks so much for joining me on the Circular Economy Show. Georgia, I wanted to start with you first. Stretching circularity, what's the need there? Why start a project on stretching circularity?
[00:01:22.760] - Georgia Parker
Well, firstly, thank you very much for having me join today, and I'm pleased to be able to talk about the project of which we're working, of course, with the Ellen MacArthur Foundation as one of our advisory partners. Elastane is a very important fiber. It's used for stretch and comfort in things like activewear, in denim, in lingerie, and in basics. But it generally tends to come, as most synthetic fibers do, from fossil-based virgin feedstocks. We also know that elastane is a really challenging contaminant when it comes to scaling textile-to-textile recycling, which is, of course, a huge technology unlock that we are all collectively working on at the moment.
[00:01:54.540] - Georgia Parker
We see that there are innovations emerging, both in bio-based elastane, where they're using renewable feedstocks, also technologies that can recycle elastane from different material types. But a lot of these are relatively fragmented or very early stage or a very small slice of the overall market share. Oftentimes, brands and manufacturers struggle to have a comprehensive overview of the different technologies that are out there, looking at them in terms of performance, recyclability, the impact, and scalability.
[00:02:30.000] - Georgia Parker
What we wanted to do with this project is build on similar structures that we've done in polyester and in cellulosics, and now explore what solutions are out there when it comes to elastane alternatives, really doubling down on who do we see as the winning solutions in this space.
[00:02:50.380] - Georgia Parker
We actually, in the end, have a fabulous cross-section of companies who are part of it, some that are earlier-stage innovators like TIRA and AminoTech and Recyc'ELit, and like Selenise or Lycra, Qore, or Hyosung. I think that's what's so exciting to me about this project is the fact that we're really working with solutions across the whole spectrum, and I'm really excited to see what some of the results show.
[00:03:18.960] - Seb Egerton-Read
Are you saying that businesses are actively asking for an organization like Fashion for Good to come into this space? Is it something they need or is it something you're taking to them as a solution you think they need?
[00:03:30.920] - Georgia Parker
A lot of the work that we do on the validation side of Fashion for Good, which is what I look after, is really about co-creating what problems we're looking to solve with partners like Lewis at Paradise Textiles or other brand partners. With this one, we really saw that the brands and manufacturers were asking us to help build out a project that would look to identify where we are in terms of innovation today and what opportunities might exist to scale some of the more disruptive technologies that we're seeing.
[00:04:03.340] - Georgia Parker
The role that we do at Fashion for Good is bringing together all of those different ecosystem actors under one umbrella. Rather than, say, Lewis with Paradise Textiles, having to go out and do validation work with all of the eight companies that we have part of this, and then each of the brand partners individually also having to do that, we align that under one project umbrella in this pre-competitive space, really having an aligned point of view on what success looks like and what we're hoping to achieve with the aim that we make it easier for the innovators, for the manufacturers, and for the brands when it comes to moving faster and more agilely at testing these different solutions.
[00:04:44.580] - Georgia Parker
Alongside Lewis from Paradise, we've also got Beyond Yoga, who are part of it, On Running, Positive Materials, Reformation, and we've got Ralph Lauren as an advisor. An amazing group of quite diverse different brands and then manufacturers as well who are working together with us on this.
[00:05:05.500] - Seb Egerton-Read
This does seem like a good time, Lewis, to bring you in. I love that, by the way, that the shortened version of your organization means that you're Lewis from Paradise. In all of the briefings, Georgia's been saying that you are the person who probably knows the most about elastane in the world. But I realized that what I haven't asked you is very briefly, what do you do, Lewis? What's your role, and what does your organization do?
[00:05:32.180] - Lewis Shuler
Yes, so I'm with Alpine Group, and I oversee the advanced concepts team. Basically, what that is, is a team of subject-matter experts that encompasses design, athlete insights, material science, advanced manufacturing. We really work as an extension of sportswear and outdoor brands, their creative and innovation teams, and help them bring new concepts to life.
[00:05:58.600] - Seb Egerton-Read
Georgia said a little bit there at the beginning about elastane, the need for certain clothings to be stretchable or to stretch being like one of the fundamental barriers to circular economy for a start and other initiatives. Why is it so difficult? What is behind this challenge from a material perspective?
[00:06:23.620] - Lewis Shuler
Yeah, I think for the most part, textiles today that are using a high content of polyurethane-based elastane can become problematic when it comes to textile recycling. As we strive to design for circularity, it's important that we're thoughtful about how we're using elastane, because once you hit that certain threshold, textile-to-textile recycling becomes problematic. I think as we reflect back on this, and we look at what we do today and what we've done for decades is that we've just used a polyurethane-based elastane by default rather than by intent. There are really a lot of opportunities to look at how we redesign textiles with purpose and how we're using stretch.
[00:07:12.830] - Lewis Shuler
First off the bat, there are ways, there are opportunities, there are solutions that are already commercial where we can reduce our reliance on polyurethane-based stretch. But then even thinking beyond that and what we're in this project is, as Georgia mentioned, there's facets of it that are bio-based. There's others that are post-consumer recycled elastane that we're bringing back. By putting these together, running through all of this validation collectively as a group, as an industry group, we're hoping to open up new opportunities to where we can bring in some of that post-consumer recycled elastane and continue putting it to use while also finding these alternatives that make textile recycling easier and improve efficiency.
[00:08:01.820] - Seb Egerton-Read
We talked about how that's a common challenge. It almost sounds the way you've described it, and I guess the way Georgia talked about as well, we imagine the solution is a bit of an ecosystem of solutions, that there might not be a silver bullet replacement for all stretch. I also found it very interesting what you said about how some of our design choices are just not intentional. The clothing is not stretched for some performance or functional reason. But obviously, there are some, imagine a sportswear, for instance, where stretch is a pretty fundamental design requirement, which might be more challenging. Is that fair to say?
[00:08:39.040] - Lewis Shuler
Yeah, definitely is. I think that's one where we look, and we say something like you just your casual T-shirt, throwing some elastane in it. I understand that there's some aspects around comfort, but there's also aspects around durability and shape retention. But for the most part, there are a lot of textiles out there where we could displace that and use other solutions to find stretch and recovery. I think the one area which you've touched on, which will be the most problematic, is looking at the high-performance, high-compression areas. Within that, it's going to be very difficult to displace polyurethane-based stretch yarns. But there's so much of the market that is outside of that space where we think that we can make a big impact validating these solutions that we are and making textile recycling and circularity easier.
[00:09:38.980] - Georgia Parker
I think just building on that, it's about having, as you said, a combination potentially of different solutions, right? In an ideal world, if you're looking to phase out virgin synthetic feedstocks, you would want bio-based feedstocks and then solutions that can also recycle those different elastane solutions so that in combination, you're looking to reduce impact, both in terms of the input feedstock and also when it comes to end-of-use. That's also part of this project. We want to look at end-of-use pathways and work with a university, probably, to be able to test different chemical recycling processes, like glycolysis and hydrolysis, taking those different feedstocks and seeing if they can actually be recycled through those different chemical recycling pathways, really to be able to start to get those loops, because obviously being able to recycle something once is great, but being able to recycle it multiple times is even better. I think that was the aim of this project, was building on the work that Ellen MacArthur Foundation and Materium had already done and having you both as ecosystem partners to take this forward, to really now get into the supply chain and be able to create these different demonstrated garments.
[00:10:57.110] - Georgia Parker
We've got, as Lewis just said, one that we would call more of a technical T-shirt, and then we've got one that we would call a non-technical T-shirt with different percentages of elastane. We'll make a T-shirt with each of the different companies' elastane that is part of the project and really being able to see how it works in practical application, and then taking those insights forward to see how we can support those solutions when it comes to real commercial implementation.
[00:11:26.080] - Seb Egerton-Read
It makes a lot of sense to me what you're both saying, which is that, actually, if you can start to get to... Well, firstly, if you say, well, actually this elastane, this stretch effect is either achieved without elastane or not actually a functional necessity of a garment, you're already changing the market, what you're trying to solve for quite substantially if you can get to the place where it's actually a fundamental need, whether that's a comfort need or a performance need. What I was going to ask you, Georgia, you started to get into that a little bit there, was what is the actual shape of the project? It sounded like what you were describing there as a pilot phase that will last for a certain period of time, and then there's a validation phase in terms of actually producing real versions of new products. Then there's a sharing learnings, thinking about scaling pathways phase. Is that broadly right? On what timeline is it feasible to do all that in this project you've got set up?
[00:12:28.740] - Georgia Parker
Yeah, I think broadly right. I think if we break it down into our four deliverables, we want to have a comprehensive landscape of the different solutions that are out there, then make these demonstration garments for both technical and non-technical applications. Create this comparative evaluation framework that looks at performance data, recyclability, biodegradability, and commercial feasibility, and then bring together all of that in a final learnings report. That what happens next, that's where we would also shift at Fashion for Good out of what's in my world, which is very much on validation, to what's looked after by my colleague, Priyanka, which is around scaling and implementation.
[00:13:10.500] - Georgia Parker
That's where we would then work one-on-one more with each of the different players to identify what are the challenges they might be facing. We've got a suite of different mechanisms that we look at to help scale materials in this space.
[00:13:23.880] - Georgia Parker
For this specific project, which is very much on that first phase, it's looking to run till the start of next year. We've already kicked off the trials. Some of the material is ready to be shipped to Paradise and to Positive Materials, and hoping to have those first demonstrator garments in Q3, Q4, before we can then pull together those results and share it back in the industry.
[00:13:51.200] - Georgia Parker
I think to me, what's really exciting is around these end-of-use pathways and also understanding the overall impact of these different technologies. That's also a big part of the projects we do at Fashion for Good. We do what we call a screening LCA, which is looking at a couple of key environmental impact indicators, global warming potential and things like that, so that we know that overall that solution is better than what it's looking to replace and where a full LCA might not be feasible because of the size of the company and where they're at on their journey. I feel like collectively as an industry in this space, if we're looking to spend time and advocate that a particular solution is lower impact or has something that it's bringing to the table in terms of, hopefully, you'd have something that's lower impact plus some additional performance benefit, which I think Lewis was also talking about before, as you can look at different manufacturing technologies and things like that. But you need to have the data to back that up. I think that's also a really important part of this project. I think, can I ask Lewis a question?
[00:14:58.880] - Seb Egerton-Read
Definitely.
[00:15:00.140] - Georgia Parker
I would intrigue Lewis. Obviously, as I talked about at the start, that we've got innovators, and we've got bigger established players that everyone already knows. Why were you, and I'm putting you as in the collective voice for all the partners that are in this project, but why were you interested in having those that we would maybe classify as conventional innovator and those that are more established in this space? Why do you think it's important to have such a wide suite of different technology providers?
[00:15:34.160] - Lewis Shuler
Yeah, I think because it's very important that we're benchmarking materials. Elastane, generally different brands of elastane all have a similar performance characteristic. As we get into these new stretch alternatives, there are very different technologies and polymer formulations that within that, the physical properties and the characteristics of the material are going to vary. I think by doing this benchmarking study, it's important that it not only shows material teams how the material works from elongation and recovery, all of the physical properties. But I also think it's important from a design aspect, because as you're bringing these new materials in, it's also going to affect fit, pattern, and all of those characteristics that need to be kept into consideration. It was important that we benchmarked, and we understand how the materials act holistically, and then we can actually move forward and find the best way to implement them. Because as we've touched on, there are going to be certain stretch yarns that work well for certain applications. Something that is a softer stretch isn't great for a compression garment. It's really getting a holistic overview of what these stretch yarns are and how to best use them.
[00:17:03.520] - Georgia Parker
I think that's a really interesting point as well of if you are a solution provider in this space, knowing that you might not be suitable for every single application out there and being super tight on what problem you're looking to solve for. Saying you want to be an elastane replacement is one thing, but also really understanding the characteristics of your material and where that makes sense, as you were just talking about, depending on the properties you might actually be suited for a different category than the one that you're going for. I think that layer of nuance is also something that I would really say to innovators that are coming up through this space, not just having this broad, "We want to replace all elastane," do you really understand the nuances of your material properties and how that fits into a product portfolio?
[00:17:54.020] - Lewis Shuler
Yeah, I was just going to also say, even going beyond just the general characteristics and physical properties of stretch yarns, through this benchmark study, we're also gaining insights that help those that are more technical or performance-oriented brands, because we're learning things around like moisture regain, the weight of the material. We're also trying to uncover those different insights, not only from a stretch and recovery perspective, but how these different stretch alternatives may play into performance in different ways as well.
[00:18:27.240] - Seb Egerton-Read
I was going to ask you a technical textiles question, Lewis. I understood that when you said soft stretch a moment ago, that presumably meant less stretch than things that need to stretch more. But correct me if I'm wrong on that soft to hard stretch. What do you mean when you say high-compression garment? What would be an example of a high-compression garment?
[00:18:48.440] - Lewis Shuler
A high-compression garment is one that's going to have a lot of power and be able to provide support, versus a soft stretch is just something of more of an easy everyday type of wear. It would be something to say more of a yoga garment versus a compression garment would be something that you'd use when you were running to provide certain support in areas of the body.
[00:19:12.840] - Seb Egerton-Read
Then, and that's very helpful. Thank you. Just as a follow-up to that, what was quite interesting about the back and forth between you and Georgia there and the ecosystem of actors that exists in this project, obviously, your role is innovating with materials and presumably working on a range of projects in this space, how typical is a project setup like this? Is it your preference? Is it the way you normally work with quite a wide ecosystem of partners, both in the innovation space and I guess also in the brand space? Or how distinctive is it?
[00:19:49.080] - Lewis Shuler
I would say this is my preferred way of working when we're trying to do some pre-collaboration and validation of materials that are focused on impact reduction. As Georgia hit on, it wouldn't make sense for all of us in the project to independently be doing the same exercise and wasting those resources. When there's something that we can do collectively like this and share the insights, I think that's a great opportunity. Then going beyond that, we can always dive into those specific nuances that provide that competitive advantage or whatnot. That's where we'll take all of this information. We'll benchmark it at a certain level, share it widely. Then as we want to innovate further with these materials, that's where we can take a second look at them.
[00:20:45.920] - Georgia Parker
I think that was really interesting that also came up with some of the brands that are part of this, that once we've done this project, then they, as you just alluded to, Lewis, really need to think about what that means for their own organization. How do they integrate the results that they were excited by and the companies they were excited by into their future material strategy? How do they help bridge the gap from that innovation validation to integrating it, pulling it through their supply chain, getting it into product, and creating a bit of a framework for helping the rest of the organization to be able to work with some of these materials that potentially, and this is a broader statement outside of just elastane, but don't work exactly as what they might be pertaining to look to replace and needing a slightly nuanced approach to that.
[00:21:37.560] - Georgia Parker
I think that's also quite interesting of that journey of the material from our initial landscaping through our validation projects, and then thinking about the different pathways, both where collective action does make sense and where Fashion for Good can support on that journey, and where that individual further development needs to take place between a manufacturer and a brand as they identify the best product fit as well.
[00:22:03.920] - Seb Egerton-Read
Yes, I think we've heard quite a nice story so far. There's a lot of innovations out there. We're able to break down the market. There's a project that has the right ecosystem of partners to create some demonstrators. I think my last couple of questions relate to what Georgia was just talking about, which is really what does the onward development pathway look like? I guess, firstly to you, Lewis, how much is thinking about the scaling potential and the commercial viability or feasibility already a part of this phase of a project? Or how much are you trying to actually separate that consideration as much as possible from the innovation you're doing in terms of creating the demonstrated, validated material solutions?
[00:22:50.060] - Lewis Shuler
I think as a group, we collectively have some certain filters that we run through innovators to decide who comes into this project. It's important that we don't purely look at what's ready to scale now or what's ready to scale in the near future, because we also want to understand and potentially even highlight those that maybe have a longer pathway before they're ready for scaling, but those with high potential. We're bringing them in. Some of them, as Georgia mentioned, are incumbents. Some of them are incumbents with just newer technologies that have not yet been commercialized. Hopefully the outcome of this is that we've characterized all these materials quite well, and we're going to have a strong point of view about which ones are ready to go immediately, which ones are coming in the near future, and then being able to share how they vary among themselves.
[00:23:49.580] - Seb Egerton-Read
It's almost part of the analysis at the end as well is what would it take, almost, to take this from an innovation to something that's the mainstream market solution?
[00:24:00.660] - Lewis Shuler
Yeah. Also, too, I think that's the importance of us collectively coming together is that we're able to put more resources into those that are further along. It allows us to go wider when the group comes together like this.
[00:24:16.860] - Seb Egerton-Read
Final question to you, Georgia, I guess, is that I know this is probably slightly unfair to you because your role is very much focused on validation in Fashion for Good. You talked a little bit about the handoff. But what is the role of Fashion for Good in terms of connecting this to mainline businesses, brands? Then what does that handoff look like even within your own organization between you and other parts of the organization?
[00:24:42.600] - Georgia Parker
Yeah. First, of course, we work very closely together on that. If you think of it like the innovation pipeline, me and my team are at the start of that pipeline, and then Priyanka and her team take over as it were, but never really taking over. It's always very well meshed together. But essentially, what we're looking at doing on the scaling side is what are some of the collective unlocks that we can do across materials, waste, and decarbonization to help navigate some of the challenges we face with getting this material to have wider spread adoption, if you think about next-gen materials more broadly.
[00:25:19.560] - Georgia Parker
On the material side, we've got a few initiatives. One is looking at how you can decouple the price premium from cost of goods sold. Rather than you have next-gen material, each person in the supply chain adding a small premium, instead, the brand can pay that premium directly to the Tier 4, and then it stays at the cost it would otherwise have been if it wasn't this next-gen material throughout the rest of the supply chain, which stops the premium growing each time because you get this ballooning that happens. We also have initiatives which we call our Fiber Clubs, which is where we're looking to aggregate demand.
[00:25:58.820] - Georgia Parker
Again, rather than a brand and an innovator having one-on-one discussions and an innovator having to have multiple conversations at once, we would have four or five different organizations we align on the supply chain partners, specifications, and things like that. The brand's benefit is that they can lock in more favorable pricing because there are bigger volumes. For the innovator, it helps them, again, get that volume commitment through a more streamlined process. Those are some of the things that we're looking at, aggregating demand, decoupling the premium, also exploring other workstreams which we hope to launch later in the year.
[00:26:37.920] - Georgia Parker
Then similarly across waste, what are some of the challenges that we face in terms of unlocking post-consumer textile waste feedstock. We've got a project that's looking at building these blueprints of hubs of different best-in-class technologies for sorting, pre-processing to get ready for recycling. That's really our role. It's being that spider in the web of bringing together all of the different ecosystem partners that need to be involved, either on the validation side or either on the scaling side, really pushing forward to build either those proof points from a technology and impact perspective or from an ecosystem perspective through these different blueprints, so that we can help move that narrative forward in a more meaningful way.
[00:27:21.140] - Seb Egerton-Read
It occurs to me that the fact you have those initiatives on the scaling side, it is also a really helpful informer of what you're doing on your validation and innovation side and maybe a confidence-inducing thing for a brand or an innovator that whole ecosystem exists, even if individual projects tackle it at different times.
[00:27:44.500] - Georgia Parker
Yeah, for sure. We did a mapping exercise a couple of years ago where we looked at what the next-gen fiber basket could look like in 2030. I think a lot of that is scaling textile-to-textile recycling, but also on the validation side, we're like, what are the gaps exist that are stopping us from moving forward with different materials, different chemistries, or really thinking about what problem are we looking to solve? That's often our starting point is what is the problem? Can that be solved either through technology or is it that actually there's a knowledge gap? We've also got a project that's looking at building out a blueprint for using mass balance in biopolyester that Lewis's team are also a part of to help navigate those challenges that a brand might have in terms of adopting the use of 100% biomass-attributed bioPET, really covering whatever helps solve the problem, both on validation and scaling and really coming at it through that lens, through these different mechanisms.
[00:28:47.170] - Seb Egerton-Read
Lewis and his team are part of the problem solvers.
[00:28:51.230] - Georgia Parker
Lewis is my favorite problem solver.
[00:28:55.170] - Seb Egerton-Read
Lewis and Georgia, thank you so much for joining us on The Circular Economy Show. I'm sure we'll have you back on when there's more progress to report on the Stretching Circularity project. Until then, thank you and goodbye.
[00:29:09.400] - Seb Egerton-Read
Two things really struck me about that conversation with Georgia and Lewis. The first was Lewis saying that elastane isn't even functionally required. It's automatically designed into a lot of our garments and clothing, which really highlights the importance of thinking when we talk about solutions for circular economy, what part of the market are we solving for? Because that might actually generate a different type of innovation that needs to be validated and scaled. The second thing was the importance of collaboration and how important that is, especially in terms of thinking about what's next and how do we develop something that's been innovated with, like what intelligence do we have from the market and the ecosystem of partners.
[00:29:49.840] - Seb Egerton-Read
I think it's a really interesting example of these implementation projects and really understanding what's needed to break through systemic barriers to a circular economy.
[00:29:59.660] - Seb Egerton-Read
Thanks for listening to this episode of The Circular Economy Show. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did enjoy it, I hope your colleagues and fellow friends might find it useful as well. Please do go on to LinkedIn and share this episode with them. We'll see you next time.