In order to bring the circular economy to life, we need more circular economists. But what does that mean? Who might these circular economists be? And what are their opportunities and challenges?
In order to bring the circular economy to life, we need more circular economists. But what does that mean? Who might these circular economists be? And what are their opportunities and challenges?
In this episode of the Circular Economy Show, we hear from “The Circular Economist”, Vojtech Vosecky, author of the newsletter The Loop. He has built his career around bringing the circular economy, working with stakeholders across innovation, business and policy.
Listen to learn more about:
Find out more about Vojtech’s work by following him on LinkedIn.
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review or a comment on Spotify or YouTube. Your support helps us to spread the word about the circular economy.
[00:00:00.480] - Seb Read
In order to make the circular economy happen, we need more circular economists. What does that mean? Who are these people? What are their opportunities and challenges? I'm your host, Seb, and in this episode of the podcast, I'm going to be joined by real life circular economist Vojtek Vosecky to find out. Vojtek, thanks so much for joining us on the Circular Economy Show. I, actually wanted to start out this podcast by finding out a little bit more about you. You've got a really big community that's very focused on the circular economy. On LinkedIn, you've launched a learning program and are running that learning program currently helping people to think about circular economy. How did you get there? What's your kind of comic book origin style story of your journey so far?
[00:00:49.370] - Vojtek Vosecky
Thanks. Well, hey, it's great to be here. It's a pleasure, really. You know, 11 years ago, I had no clue what circular economy is. I had no clue that I was going to make a career in it. I even didn't have a lot of interest in sustainability. But a lot has changed ever since. And today I'm LinkedIn's biggest creator in the circular economy space. And I guess it all actually started at a university where there was this incredible lecture and a keynote from a fantastic speaker that was about circular economy. And it really inspired me. It kind of lit a light bulb inside my head. And that one moment, that one class 11 years ago, kind of propels me to this very day. I've had many different roles ever since, but back in that day, I knew that circular economy is going to be the future for the business, for the national governments, for our cities, for our regions. And I knew it was going to be my future too. And that conviction hasn't left me ever since.
[00:02:00.570] - Seb Read
So, Vojtek, I'm now quite interested to find out what was said in that lecture that got you started on that journey.
[00:02:07.930] - Vojtek Vosecky
It wasn't a rocket science. The lecture wasn't just somehow groundbreaking. Now looking back at it, but back in the day, to me it was revolutionary. It was all about just circular economy, about a world without waste, about a world where waste can be turned into resource, about a world where we use things up to their full potential instead of using them up. One thing that got really stuck in my head was the whole analogy with nature, that nature is circular, that there is no waste in nature and everything flows in these harmonious cycles. And that it's all about applying natural principles into the world of humans. How we design products, how we operate factories, how we build cities and I just knew that, you know, it's radically yet simply beautiful and I just could see it happening and already seeing that there are companies working on that gave me so much energy and inspiration to get into the circular economy myself. And yeah, I can tell you it's been quite a journey ever since.
[00:03:19.680] - Seb Read
And I'm interested to hear more about that journey because earlier you described yourself as a LinkedIn creator and maybe we can dive in a moment just to understand what that means, what you do. But from that moment on, what sorts of thing, where did that kind of take you? What sort of things have you done in your career to get to the place you are now?
[00:03:37.760] - Vojtek Vosecky
Yeah, I, it looks very different from what I'm doing today. I basically tried all kinds of possible jobs out there to have a look at circular economy from different angles. I was almost never employed. That's a bit of a cliffhanger. But the first gig was I was an intern at the European Parliament and I was helping my boss back then, the vice chairman of the Environmental Committee in the European Parliament, with the circular economy directives. Because back in that time, back in 2015, EU was just building first circular economy action plan. From there on, I moved back to Prague, my hometown, and I started a think tank called Institute of circular economy. By the way, it's still alive and kicking, even though I have nothing to do with it today. We kind of grew that institute to 20 full time employees in two different countries, worked with any kind of stakeholder you can imagine, just to, you know, be the number one stakeholder in a country to go to when it comes to the topic. I was an advisor to a lot of different companies. I was employed by the city of Prague to be a circular economy manager of my hometown for four years.
[00:04:55.740] - Vojtek Vosecky
So a lot of different things. But then when it really took a different turn was when Covid hit. And at that same time, me and my wife, we decided to move back to her home country, Sweden. And you know, I don't know if you still remember that moment, but you couldn't meet anyone, right? It was, it was different game and I knew that I'm just moving to a new region, new countries, and suddenly I'm. I'm a small fish in a very big lake. And I turned to LinkedIn to like build connections, book meetings, start to network and I gradually start creating content as well because I saw a big gap. I saw, first of all, no one was talking about circular economy on social media, besides just a few posts of people meeting here and there and shaking Hands, which worked five years ago, but today you wouldn't get anywhere with a post like that. So I saw an opportunity to educate people, raise awareness, share my thoughts on the concept, share the misconceptions, talk about our success stories, et cetera. And that really took off. Basically, it's been an exponential growth ever since. And now I'm LinkedIn's biggest circular economy profile private profile with 157,000 followers.
[00:06:21.540] - Vojtek Vosecky
I have a newsletter as well, with more than 9,000 subscribers. And today it's all about just bringing millions and millions into the circular economy every week. Just like I found my spot, I found my mission. And I think it's all about just helping people understand the power of the concept, getting them inspired and helping them navigate that complexity and turn that into something actionable. So that's what I do all day, every day. I do a lot of keynotes, workshops as well. And now I also teach. So it's also a moment to give back in a more deeper way. So I'm just at the end of my first cohort to help people become the circular economists as well.
[00:07:03.310] - Seb Read
You are true circular economy champion in the truest sense of the word, I guess Vojtek and I'm curious. So we talked a bit about your motivation and your journey. I'm curious because you're engaging this community so actively on circular economy. What are you seeing about the motivations there? How is that momentum building? And why are people coming to find out about circular economy from places such as your newsletter and LinkedIn and education offerings?
[00:07:33.340] - Vojtek Vosecky
I think circular economy sounds really complex, but in its essence, it's a beautiful thought, right? There's just so much waste out there. Our economy is incredibly wasteful. And finding ways how to turn these problems into opportunities, I think that's what really drives people in. I think a lot of folks feel the same like I did back in the day, you know, that, hey, I could make a career in the circular economy. This is something for the business, for the planet, for myself, and I think for the general society. Right. Why the content has been so popular is that I still haven't found a single person on this planet that would tell me that, you know, wasting everything is good, that, you know, fixing stuff is bad. It's like the idea that circular economy promises is so powerful and so simple that it brings all kinds of different actors from all around the world together.
[00:08:28.720] - Seb Read
And there's something in what you're saying there and it's evident in the kind of conversation about people starting to make careers in circular economy. But it's the connection between sort of doing good, which means different things, different people, but also real business proposition, real economic opportunity. And it feels like that's the sweet spot that you're also really trying to speak to and have actively participated in.
[00:08:56.690] - Vojtek Vosecky
Yeah, always, you know, well, actually not always. Sometimes I think, you know, my motivation is for the planet. Right. That's how I got started. And I think there are things that propel the business that are just difficult from the get go that need to be changed. For circular economy cannot help but. So for me, the motivation and I think for people is the planet. Right. Because circular economy, as you know, you yourselves have published many times. That's the missing link to tackle the climate change. Right. So if you only focus on the renewables, which is incredibly important, we're still solving about half of the issue with greenhouse gas emissions, not to mention the biodiversity loss, the resource scarcity that were inherently headed towards to. So, but, but a lot of companies out there see this as a longer viable strategy to stay relevant, stay active and you know, to, to keep doing business, frankly, you know, from a material perspective, from a, from the value that they're delivering, from the way they're connecting with customers and consumers. So I think what we've seen over the last 10 years is just, you know, steady growth in terms of how circular economy became a core business topic.
[00:10:23.120] - Vojtek Vosecky
Right. It's not just like a marketing or green concept anymore for a lot of companies out there, especially in Europe, it's about staying relevant and staying in business in a few decades in the future.
[00:10:39.840] - Seb Read
And it's really positive to hear you kind of describing that as your experience. I wonder if, and there's a lot of, as you know, from the conversation we've had in the lead ups to this podcast Vojtech, there's a lot of resonance with the experiences you're having with your community and the experiences that the foundation has in various sets of networks and overlaps there. Obviously I'm curious because what you're talking about, there is a kind of momentum in the business sector. What are some of the kind of trends, patterns, case studies, where are we seeing really strong progress in circular economy and where are you seeing people get stuck?
[00:11:14.160] - Vojtek Vosecky
Yeah. So first of all, let's not fall into that trap of thinking that circular economy is booming because I mean, on one hand it is, but on the other our world is less and less circular. And that's just the hard reality we need to take into consideration. Right. Like we know that we just are more and more and we get richer and we extract more resources and we do not recirculate enough. Actually that ratio is getting lower and lower. That's not the only way to look at how circular is our world. But it just shows that despite all these reports, all these action plans, roadmap strategies and investments being made, we're still lagging behind. But I also believe that we're just kind of reaching a tipping point when and such as with circular economy, with sustainability in general, with renewables, with recycling infrastructure, we're reaching a tipping point when all these like early difficult steps and investments have been made, all these homeworks have been written. And now 10 years later, we're going to finally start seeing initiatives, projects and results that scale that can hopefully bring us closer to actually becoming more circular as a, as a, you know, society on this planet, which we're not at all right now.
[00:12:40.990] - Seb Read
And I'd love to dive into that a little bit because I think that's a really interesting theme. This kind of combination of you can really see a lot of the kind of sprouts of optimism if you like, you can really look at the world and I mean your own story of course is kind of one of those examples of like momentum and energy and direction being very positive for circular economy. But equally, as you say, you can look at the hard numbers, you say, well, actually implementation at any sort of scale is still really challenging and there's also a number of challenging geopolitical contexts and so on and so forth that can almost make you be very pessimistic. And it feels like we need more energy in the spirit of education, in driving awareness and engagement to counter some of that. But I'm really interested in, because as you say, the circular economy is a very prolific idea now, both in business and policy roadmaps and strategies, but also broad awareness in certainly key demographics in society, shall we say. What do you see as the kind of knowledge to action gap, which is what you were talking about a lot of your work kind of speaks to how do you take someone and get them inspired by the idea, but then also help that direct that inspiration towards what can you do as someone working in a business or leading a business function or creating a startup, whatever it might be.
[00:14:04.210] - Seb Read
What's. What sort of experience do you have there? What, you know, what are you seeing?
[00:14:08.210] - Vojtek Vosecky
Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. I think in the professional world, in the corporate world, several gaps. One is of course the worst question, what's the ROI when are we going to see our money back? And I think the ROI is there. We have been bad at communicating that. We've been always relying on selling the thought because it's just great for the planet. But unfortunately that doesn't get you too far in the business world. That is one gap that I'm trying to close. A lot of others are, and I think businesses are getting up to speed. The second gap is, okay, this is great, I'm sold. How do we do that? How like circle business models that sound great, but okay, how do we do that? Where do we start? Who do we need? What do we focus on? And this is where I find a lot of companies, they're kind of in that state, especially larger ones which need to do this from all kinds of different reasons, mostly regulation and mostly in the eu. And then third, which is, I think, the easiest to solve. How do we get people on board?
[00:15:21.850] - Vojtek Vosecky
How do we communicate this to our clients, to our customers? How do we communicate this to our employees? And I think that's also a very peculiar issue because there's so many differences when it comes to cultures, regions, different businesses that the companies are in. But those are the three main gaps.
[00:15:44.530] - Seb Read
And this is the million dollar question. Vojtech. But any ideas of how we saw, how we fill those gaps?
[00:15:53.320] - Vojtek Vosecky
So, you know, like, I like this analogy when it comes to the what's the ROI, right? What's the return on the investment that we get? We need better models. We need like very easy ways to calculate that. We need to learn how to account for negative externalities. There are ways to calculate that, but they're very, very complex, very difficult. You need to consult, maybe you need a whole agency. It takes half a year, you know, to kind of get to a number. Whereas when you're just because you're dealing with a lot of different units, you're dealing with tons of resources, you're dealing with prices of recycled content, you're dealing with, you know, the customer retention value. You just a lot of different value drivers that circle economy has that where you could calculate how much will you actually make or save if you do all that? If you bring it all together, I believe the ROI is often better, stronger, even shorter term. However, we do not have simple ways to do that right now. And it's kind of like a puzzle that you kind of need to stitch together and a lot of people get stuck and a lot of people fail to communicate this.
[00:17:08.680] - Seb Read
And I'm really interested in the. Sorry to interrupt you Vojtech, but I'm really Interested in the stories that begin to come out out about that. I feel like when we think about the stories about circular economy five years ago, they were kind of like, what is it? What does it look like and how could it work? And it feels like the next wave of stories we need are kind of from the champions who have tried to make a business case internally, have done some of that hard work that you're talking about, which is like, how do I understand the full value of this proposition? Because you intuitively, people kind of know it's there, but then they look at their balance sheet and they say, well, it's not. But somehow can those two things be true? And it's because there's a bit of a work to do to fill that gap.
[00:17:48.500] - Vojtek Vosecky
Yes, thank you. Because I really believe that we need talking more about circular economists as a job, as a profession, as a way to do this, as a way to communicate this, as a way to find answers to these questions. Because for now, you know, I haven't seen that term being really picked up. And there's a lot of focus on success stories from companies, a lot of beautiful white papers. But I think we're missing human factor. We're missing the stories from the change makers inside these organizations who are behind those success stories, the people who can teach us, who can show us, hey, here's how I turn this multibillion corporate to generate 40% of our revenue from circle business models. Here's how I did that. Here's what I would recommend you to do the same. And we're getting there. And this is also part of my mission to, to elevate those people and help and connect them with the people who want to learn as well. And I think the more we focus on these success stories on a personal level, on the change makers and on the change management as a skill that's needed for circular economy, the faster we will succeed because we've seen enough of beautiful polish reports about, you know, numbers that are hard to comprehend about what's the potential and what this company did.
[00:19:12.290] - Vojtek Vosecky
But I think now it's the time about the how, how do we do that? How do we get there? And then we have work to do.
[00:19:18.610] - Seb Read
Yes. And I feel like we've done a lot of work in this episode of the podcast Vojtech, talking over some of these topics. Before I let you go, what's next for you? Like what you've been. I know you've launched your circular economist program. I'm probably not getting the name of that 100% right and that's part of your mission to create more circular economists and aspire more circle economists. But what's next in in your story?
[00:19:43.300] - Vojtek Vosecky
Thanks. Well, it's actually connected to my previous answer to you. So I really want to help as many people get into the Circular Economy. And I will continue doing that with daily content on LinkedIn weekly through my newsletter. But also that's just scratching the surface. So what I'm really looking to build is a massive community of change makers of these circle economists from all around the world through my cohort and probably a lot more. I don't want to say too much because it's all just like baking inside my head at the moment, but I would love to keep everyone posted on that. And besides that, I'm very with all kinds of different events. I get invited as a speaker, as a moderator. So I can tell you the next few weeks will be super busy. And if there's anyone listening who recognises my voice or my face, and you are at some of these events, just come forward, let me know. Shake my hand. I would love to hear from you as well.
[00:20:50.050] - Seb Read
Great. Well, and thank you so much for taking some time out of that busy schedule to speak with us Vojtech. And I'm sure we'll speak again soon, either on the podcast or elsewhere.
[00:21:00.610] - Vojtek Vosecky
Well, thanks. And can I just say one last thing, Seb?
[00:21:03.570] - Seb Read
Of course.
[00:21:05.170] - Vojtek Vosecky
So actually I have a huge thing to say to you, what you're doing at the foundation, because it was, you were the first. It was the reports back in the day that was the only place to go to to find out more about what circular economy is. And I think your job that continues to this day is incredibly important and it really made a big difference in my own personal journey. So I just wish you all the best and I hope that you continue.
[00:21:38.450] - Seb Read
Thank you so much, Vojtek. And yes, it's great to see some of the impact that's had, but also the impact that's now being had by many other people who are leading that space as well. I really appreciate what Vojtek said there about the fact that the business case for a circular economy really does already exist today. We know it intuitively, but we need to get better at articulating it and we need to hear more of the stories of people on that journey to making the case. And we need more champions just like Vojtek. And we'll link his work in our show notes in case you want to go and connect with him or check out what he does. And if you're new to this place, then please do start your journey as a circular economy influencer by subscribing to this podcast and sharing this episode with your community and your network. We'll see you next time.